BJ Barham and Joe Wilkins

“Songwriting is about making observations and deciding which ones are worth chasing. And I think I’ve become a better songwriter through 15 years of doing it wrong.”—BJ Barham

“Poetry is a way of paying attention. And the more I pay attention, the more I understand the metaphorical implications and that there’s something beyond what we see.”—Joe Wilkins

BJ Barham fronts the band American Aquarium, and their most recent release is the fantastic Lamentations which, as you’ll hear, was inspired by a bathroom wall, not by any Biblical reference. Joe Wilkins is a poet and a novelist. His recent novel Fall Back Down When I Die is stunning. Wilkins lives in western Oregon and is Professor of English and director of the creative writing program at Linfield University.

Barham and Wilkins share a few traits. Both grew up in rural America: Barham in North Carolina, Wilkins in Montana. Both write about characters from their own lives who may not align with them politically. But Barham and Wilkins ask their audience to view these characters with an empathetic eye because, as Barham says, "A lot of times we look at the color of the hat someone is wearing and don't realize that they're human." Barham credits Wilkins with humanizing characters who, he says, "probably vote a lot differently than I do."

I grew up in the Washington, DC suburbs and around none of the characters in Wilkins's book, which is based in rural Montana. But this book floored me. My favorite writers are poets who can also write novels because you get stunning imagery coupled with plot. Wilkins delivers. There are gorgeous descriptions of rural Montana and narration that makes you want to turn to the next page.

Barham and I share a love for Wilkins's book, so when I suggested that the three of us have a conversation about the creative process, Barham was all in. This is the second time Barham and I have teamed up to discuss the writing process with a novelist. The first was with bestselling author S.A. Cosby, whose two recent books Blacktop Wasteland and Razorblade Tears have met with widespread critical acclaim. You can watch that video here. Will this become a series? Possibly! I also interviewed Barham in 2020 by himself.

Watch my conversation with B.J. Barham and Joe Wilkins below!